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Rob124 anos atrás
@ Mister_Master. I will get back to you shortly with a few ideas for roads. By the way, I have Slavic blood and do not object in any way to your monument to the Soviets. It is part of world history and which version you believe should not matter in this game. Others can and will feel free to dislike your monument because of what they believe, but others like me will also like your work and see things from the other side. Please @ everyone don't get into arguments over religion or your version of history versus someone else's. This is a game. We build art. Art is controversial. If you don't like something you don't have to visit the place to look at it. If everything controversial was taken out of the game then we might as well pull up everything and leave. But I know it won't come to that and I'm staying put too.
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Mister_Master4 anos atrás
Globetrotter You read from books, but I live. There is no image caption in the game, so you can assume that it is Mario, who killed only a dozen turtles, In any case, the Stalin about whom you write to me is the same fictional character compared to the real one. 10s miillions are you serious? Do you even imagine the volume of camps, their number, location on the territory of the USSR, accounting, the amount of documentation, just the physical need to transport people to their places of residence, these 10 million are simply physically impossible, railway those years could not cope with such a volume of passenger transportation, given that for these 10 million convoys, security guards and accompanying personnel were needed, as well as food, sanitary and hygiene and medical things, so that there would be no epidemics during the transfer, 2 million came out, or rather 1,846,346, and this is all criminals sitting in prisons of the Stalin period are recorded as victims of political repressions of all years. Talk in life with someone who has been organizing something, at least gathering a group of 20 people on a hike, I assure you that there are always those who stay, do not show up, etc. The operation to transport 10 million people is even now unrealistic.
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Mister_Master4 anos atrás
Rob12 thank you for not having biases. I do not advocate point of view, I just know that my two grandfathers are worthy people who would not lie to their children and grandchildren. A sense of justice is what prompted me to enter into this debate, this is inherent in the Slavic worldview, if we see injustice, we are ready to defend ourselves and the weak, despite the risks.
por
4 anos atrás
When I gave my comment at #20, I never mentioned the art in the game, did I? Stalin was scum, regardless of any architecture in this game. He was one of many atheist dictators in the 20th century that made it possible for a 100 MILLION people to be murdered. When Stalin died, his successor, Khrushchev, didn't like Stalin, and did his best to de-Stalinize the Soviet Union. As time goes by, no doubt, more Russians will forget Stalin's atrocities, and the millions that were incarcerated and murdered will be forgotten, and Stalin will seem to be less of a bad guy. But there's a saying... if you forget the past, we will be condemned to repeat it. Stalin was paranoid, and had many government leaders killed to strengthen his dictatorship. Stalin's 2nd wife committed suicide because of his abuse, but Stalin called it appendicitis. He wouldn't even make a prisoner trade for his own son during WWII because Stalin thought he was a traitor (more paranoia). The Soviets own records (that were declassified) says, Stalin murdered 6-8 MILLION people, but people whom also lived it said, the numbers were much higher.
por
Rob124 anos atrás
@ Globetrotter you win the ridiculous death toll statistics, I don't know where you got those figures from, but I did find this snippet from Wikipedia Legacy {The historian Robert Conquest stated that Stalin, "perhaps[…] determined the course of the twentieth century" more than any other individual.[859] Biographers like Service and Volkogonov have considered him an outstanding and exceptional politician;[860] Montefiore labelled Stalin as "that rare combination: both 'intellectual' and killer", a man who was "the ultimate politician" and "the most elusive and fascinating of the twentieth-century titans".[861] According to historian Kevin McDermott, interpretations of Stalin range from "the sycophantic and adulatory to the vitriolic and condemnatory".[862] For most Westerners and anti-communist Russians, he is viewed overwhelmingly negatively as a mass murderer;[862] for significant numbers of Russians and Georgians, he is regarded as a great statesman and state-builder.[862]} So it seems we either love him or hate him just like Mister_Master said and it also seems he is worthy of being remembered. When it comes to art, do we destroy every sculpture and painting of everyone who wronged anyone else? There are quite a number of paintings of Hitler, statues of Pharaohs, Roman and Greek gods. You would have to destroy %99 of history and art.
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space is green4 anos atrás
Perhaps we can build a giant iron curtain around this location and start a "Colt war"... I'm just here for the puns, guys <:-P
por
4 anos atrás
Rob... you can sneer at my info, but Wikipedia is hardly considered academia. Anyone, including you and I, can upload, or change, the Wikipedia info. Being an "outstanding and exceptional politician" does nothing to negate the atrocities he did to those that were in his cross-hairs. I find it ironic, how Stalin can be so paranoid with his fellow politicians, and his own family, yet, he'd sign a nonaggression pact with Adolf Hitler, whom he should've been paranoid with. As I said before, my comment has nothing to do with the art in this game, nor the boycott of it. You can keep bringing it up, if it makes you feel better.
por
Firefly4 anos atrás
Visiting Mister_Master's build is on my list for when Angeldust v3.10 has been released, and I'm looking forward to it given the positive remarks by other players in the beginning of the thread. As for the depiction of real-life people I'm a bit conflicted. History is my weak point. I find the science troublesome, since there are many conflicting points of view and stories that somehow need to be pressed into something we want to universally call "the truth". Turns out things are never that simple, especially in modern times, where everyone from all over the globe needs to come together. It's impossible to formulate a single accepted truth about pretty much anything, because there's a huge amount of viewpoints. And every viewpoint potentially has its correct version of "the truth". In general, I feel that including any "real" people in an in-game build (or wonder) is an avenue for trouble. It breaks the immersion in the game and players will have their own opinion on and emotions related to the depicted person. This will eventually lead to problems. For instance, a depiction of me would be equally problematic as I'm pretty sure there are players actively trying to avoid me. I will judge Mister_Master's build at face value. Just like build battles where I rate things oblivious to any actual facts like the Abraham Lincoln memorial. As for the included Russian dudes my knowledge is pretty much limited to the fact that they're Russian and old. The abbreviation CCCP comes to mind, though I don't know what it stands for. If there's a general consensus that the Russian dudes are majorly offensive—I don't see them like that at the moment—I could ask Mister_Master to maybe tweak the design. Right now my reason for that would be that they're "real" people which is a bad fit for a fantasy world in general.
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