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RFC: Photon, mimic interaction

in English in Forums





Post 11–20 of 37

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# 11

by

Firefly

18 days ago


@The Wicked Dust, @JeremyDarkling: I fully understand the problem with existing builds, which is why I'm bringing it up. Over the years I've always tried to make sure functional changes are balanced with the effort of updating existing builds. So far I think I did pretty well overall, even putting in a lot of manual labor to help players update their builds. Also, the change in its proposed form would only affect builds with mimics next to photon blocks which I think is a very small subset of all builds. @Rob12: the precise semantics are something we can tweak or talk about. The current concept is based on a very simple association that came up in my mind. Mimics copy blocks, photons are dynamic, 1 + 1 = 2. There's multiple ways to approach this: like maybe any photon will toggle mimic state from any direction. Or the star (injector) will always make it a big boi and the diamond (remover) will make it a small boi. It's all up for debate. We could also limit the interaction to photons flying straight into a mimic block or go with some other strategy. To be honest I'm more worried that the system would be too limited in functionality as you can only visually toggle between two blocks. Block updates would also be slightly delayed so it's not as interactive as the existing, self-contained photon ecosystem. EDIT: I'm probably able to show a barebones version of this on the livestream where photons affect surrounding mimics. As I'm not the best builder in town, feel free to cook up some ideas to try out.


# 12

by

The Wicked Dust

18 days ago


@Hummm I didn't necessarily mean "fair" that way but you're right, having this given to us with no charges requires much appreciation and gratitude. What I meant was that it would be very wrong to have builds ruined by a commonly used block due to an update but after seeing firefly's post I see there won't be any situations like that plus it'd be a great addition to the game


# 13

by

The Wicked Dust

18 days ago


@firefly thanks for the clarification. I also have something to discuss and I'll speak during the live stream (I'm using a new yt account) but I'll let you know


# 14

by

Hummm

18 days ago


I'd vote for a new (3rd) "mimic" block that simply toggles on it's own at a fixed rate. This puts the entire workload on the client and allows the builder to design free of photon conduit routing, and associated delays.


# 15

by

Firefly

17 days ago


For those who missed the live photon-mimic demo, here's a link to the livestream segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyDkST0yhTw&t=5722s It's about 30 minutes long, including an explanation of the basic idea, a looping 'bear machine' and a silly attempt at a traffic light, loosely inspired by @Rob12's comment. My idea is to have the photon-mimic interaction only when a photon conduit is next to a mimic. Intuitively I think the star photon should toggle mimic state between thick and thin, and the diamond photon always resets mimics to thin. This would match the existing photon block system. Feedback on the demo and the idea remains welcome. It's very close to the best implementation that I'd be able to make. One problem is that the client spawns orange clumps on mimic transitions. Future client updates could prevent this. As for backwards compatibility; I've checked the entire game world for the photon conduit/mimic combination. There are ~19 claimed lands in which it appears, claimed by: – @Big Red 1 – @CaVe wonderful – @deepakbisht6850 – @Derick555 – @ESMERALDA LEYEND - @fabrizzio009 – @fatih+ – @Joey Roo – @Map maker 1 – @Mister_Master – @obi- – @Pinaple Head – @Wallaroo 12 There are also instances in Streaming City quadrants C and D. I think the builder in question was watching the livestream yesterday. To that builder: feel free to PM me if you want the exact coordinates so you can check. My next step is to PM all of the affected accounts to investigate the feasibility of updating builds to accommodate the potential new functionality. I hope to send this PM within two hours after this post.


# 16

by

Rob12

17 days ago


Thanks FF for providing the above info. It seems that I have 4 out of the 13 claimed lands above. More than I had thought and encompassing at least 2 different builds. I will have to have another look at them to see what can be done to change them (if) the new block function were to be accepted. I'm having a real hard time trying to locate the exact photon machines that are next to mimics. Is there a way you can give us more information, like exactly which claims these combinations occur on please?


# 17

by

Firefly

17 days ago


@Rob12: I'm sending out the private messages with coordinates and details now. Expect them to arrive within an hour as I format them nicely. EDIT: PMs have been sent, you'll need to check the actual listed accounts for details as I don't really know who is who's alt :D


# 18

by

Firefly

17 days ago


Quick tip: maybe it's best to just first look around to see where problems are at. I'm not sure yet if the feature should make it into the game in its proposed form based on the lack of positive feedback. EDIT: @The Wicked Dust suggested me spinning up a testing server. It can sorta be done, but only technically skilled people on Windows/macOS/Linux/RPi would be able to join. It'd also cost me a ton of time. Seeing a good (or at least, decent) use of the feature might convince everyone that it's a worthwhile thing to have. Otherwise we're incurring a lot of problems on a few master builders for very little benefit to the community.


# 19

by

Firefly

13 days ago


Quick update: @obi- has shown me two very impressive demos of what can be done with this photon-mimic interaction. These demos were done without constraining the interaction to photon conduits, and obi thinks it's much better and compact this way. This does lead to more problems in the existing game world though, as suddenly every photon everywhere could trigger unintended mimic toggling. I don't want a lot of builders to run into trouble. A solution would be to only activate the mimic-photon interaction on demand, most likely by a checkbox in the 'Land' page on the website. New claims would have this 'on' by default, old claims would need to be activated first. It's technically a solution, but I hate the semantic rift this creates. Another problem is that the current client doesn't handle block updates too well. I can't prevent clumps and smoke puffs from spawning and this just looks weird for a supposedly automated process. I'll now look into all blockers for doing client updates. Along the way I might find a solution for all problems that I see.


# 20

by

Rob12

13 days ago


@ Firefly, I would support the addition of this new function if it includes the checkbox in the land page online.


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